Ep. 8: Transitioning into Six Figure User Experience Design Career!

On episode 8 of  @BigTechEnergyPodcast I have UI/UX Coach Ashley Janelle talking about her career path, different types of roles in UI/UX, how she helps students build their portfolios and break into Tech, and how to approach the recent layoffs.

Be sure to subscribe to the  @BigTechEnergyPodcast   YouTube channel and download/listen on #spotifypodcasts, #applepodcasts, #googlepodcasts, #iheartradio, etc.

As a seasoned Lead User Experience and User Interface Designer, Ashley focuses on designing customer-centered experiences that target her user’s everyday challenges. At Amazon, Ashley digs to uncover user pinpoints and desires while designing solutions that allow them to save time, money and increase productivity. In addition, she’s also built an online “Aspiring UX Designers” community of over 28,000 members looking for assistance transitioning into the field. Outside of coaching students in her Bootcamp, Ashley hosts regular portfolio audit and UX research workshops to help more designers achieve their goals.

As a UX coach and course creator, she’s developed an online course to help aspiring UX designers go from beginner to experienced UX Designers to land jobs at top companies. Using her UX expertise and passion for working with people, Ashley’s not only helped others land their dream roles but helped to build confidence to become successful UX Designers. Past students have landed jobs at companies such as Facebook, Amazon Games, and Walmart.

To learn more about Ashley’s UI/UX bootcamp, click the top link on Direct.me/BigTechEnergy!
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Transcript

0:01

Hey, what's up, y'all? This is Jarrett Albritton, and welcome to the Big Tech Energy Podcast. So I've been in the tech space for 17 plus years, and every day I would look around the room and say, I wish there were more black people in this room. I wish more black people knew about tech, and I wish more black people saw incredible success in tech the way myself and my colleagues have been able to have. So over the last couple years, we've been doing spaces, and we've helped over 200 people break into tech. And now with this podcast, I'm going to be highlighting some of my favorite startup founders, high paid tech employees, recruiters, career coaches, and hiring managers on what steps should you take to be successful, but what is the mindset that has made them incredibly impactful? So take your notes, stay tuned, and soak up this Big Tech Energy. And today I have one of my favorite people that I've met throughout my last two year journey of just educating and putting people on the resources. Ashley Janelle is, in my opinion, the goat when it comes to UX in terms of helping people understand how to get into the UX career space and helping them get jobs and making sure that their portfolio is lit and they're completely prepared. And she's also a super dope black woman in tech. So with that being said, I'd love to pass the mic to Ashley Janelle to introduce herself, and then I'm going to get some questions in so y'all can learn how she got to where she is and also how she helps people get into UX. So what's up, Ashley? Good to see you. So, yeah, like I said, thank you for having me. I'm Ashley Janelle. As Jared has just said, I am a user Experience Designer, which we can get into exactly what that is maybe in just a bit, but user Experience user Interface Designer, which is also called, like, UX. So been a UX designer for the last about maybe like seven years, but for the last six years, I've been doing UX coaching and also running a boot camp for people who are interested in getting into UX, but maybe don't want to go back to school. They just want to hop right into the field. So it's a 16 week boot camp, so I've been running that as well. But from my career as a UX designer, I've worked at small companies, smaller companies like Red Box, large companies that are non tech, companies like Caterpillar, companies that have been around for over 100 years. And currently I'm a UX designer at Amazon. So really seeing different ways that UX works at different places is really fascinating, to be honest. Just like being able to witness how to actually be a UX designer at smaller companies, at startups, at companies that are like the nontraditional or non technical companies like Caterpillar, even though there are technical elements and then also moving into a big tech company. So it's been really interesting. That's dope. That's dope. So the first question I want to ask you is, when it comes to the tech space, what was your motivation and your first introduction into tech? Yeah, so it's interesting. I know a lot of people are transitioning into tech right now after working in other fields. But for me personally, to be honest, when I was in high school, I took a Photoshop class and I took a Flash class, and that was my introduction into design. I had no idea that I was really going to like it the way that I did, but I loved the idea that I could create something on the Internet. And I love the idea of being free when we talk about being able to work remotely, that was something that I was thinking about when I was in high school because it just dawned on me. I was like, I can do what I love from literally anywhere. I don't have to be tied to a physical. My intro that class was my introductory know tech essentially, or I would just like to call it design because we weren't necessarily thinking about it in a technical way the way that we do today. But that was my introductory into design. And from there I attended Columbia College Chicago, which is an art college. Got my degree in Interactive Arts and Media, which is a fancy way of saying like web design, graphic design, some coding. And then after that to be not. I didn't feel comfortable kind of in what my next step was. I feel like I had a portfolio that wasn't very good. It was very bad web design, some coding to make it work. But I was not getting the job that I thought that I would get right out of school. So from Of, I was still working at my job. I was working at Apple at the time. I was working at Apple Retail. Met someone who became a mentor to me. I went to go work as his assistant for a media company. And literally when we talk about mentorship and we talk about how everyone's path is different, like, yes, I did go to school for design and things like that, but I didn't have a traditional path. He took me under his wing. I was his assistant. But he also gave me a MacBook and was like, listen, I want you to create presentation decks for me. I want you to study it, create it, show it to the different SVPs around the office, see if this is something that they would use. And that was my entryway into understanding the different roles that could take place within design. I hadn't even gotten to UX yet, to be honest. Fast forward. Ended up getting a presentation designer role at Motorola. From there worked at an agency, and then from there I was like, okay, I'm bored, because that also happens in design. It's like, I'm a web designer, I'm a graphic designer, I'm a presentation designer. I have all these skills, but I'm bored. And I felt like there was another part of my brain that I just really wasn't utilizing. And so that's when my mentor, same person, shout out to Devin Johnson. He runs a LeBron's media company, but he was, Listen, UX, look it up. See if it's something that you're interested in. And I was like, okay, listen, I looked it up, and I literally signed up for a boot camp the next day because that's where I was. I was like, I'm bored. I need to do something else. And if I'm going to do it, the time is now. So that's what I ended up doing. And the rest is kind of history. All right, now that's a super dope story. It's my first time hearing it too. So I'm hearing at the same time as the listeners, and that's fire shouts to Devin Johnson. So one thing that I really stuck out in terms of your story is the importance of finding a mentor. And as you probably get bombarded with DMs, I get bombarded with DMs, especially when we're on these stages of everybody wanting mentorship. And I always tell people, you have to be able to, number one, align with the vision of your mentor. They got to see something in you that reminds them of themselves, and they're just like, if Ashley just has the right resources and access, she's going to kill it. But I'm sure you led with value as well. Like, if you can show me this, I can support you in this way. Please confirm that and just let people know the importance of being as valuable to the mentor as they are to you. Yeah, that's really important. We talk about mentorship a lot, and everyone's looking for a mentor. And I think the thing that a lot of people miss is that, like you said, you have to be as valuable to that other person. And a lot of people say, well, I may not have anything to give, or I don't have anything to offer. How am I supposed to find someone? And it's like, honestly, networking, getting out there, building relationships with people are going to be the best way that people can actually see you. Right, because Devin saw something in me. He was taking on this new role. He needed an assistant, so he saw that I was trustworthy, or there was something in him, to your point, that he saw. But I also at that time expressed like, listen, this is not what I'm trying to know. This is where I'm trying to get to. I want to work in this design world. And even not being necessarily a designer himself, he knew how to kind of get me there. And so that's what it really takes, is, like, the relationship building it doesn't have to necessarily be someone in your field that can get you to the next level, but you have to show a passion. People want to help people that want to help themselves and people who they can see that are not just necessarily going to want to be spoon fed everything that they need. So, yes, totally accurate. The relationship has to be mutually beneficial in some kind of way. So, absolutely, yes. And you mentioned two words that are consistent with every guest that's been here. It's like passion and work ethic and also being like a self starter and somebody that can get results. So the boot camp, talk about the boot camp experience and what were your big takeaways from it? And are boot camp something you recommend people looking to break into UX be a part of? Yeah, definitely. So I think when it comes to, and I'm sure you can attest to this from your profession, learning the thing is one thing, but being good at the thing is another thing. And what I felt like I had to offer was teaching people how to be good at the thing, to be good thinkers, to be good problem solvers. That's what user experience is all about. It's about the study of human behavior. And we take those learnings and those insights and we apply those to what it is that we actually design. You know what I mean? Like, why is that button red over blue? Or why is this just all of these questions that we have to ask ourselves and re ask ourselves and re ask customers and things like that. It's problem solving at best. But there are so many different techniques and approaches, there's so many different ways that we work with our business partners like PMS and developers, stakeholders. And I feel like as someone who has worked at different companies, different size companies, that I had a lot to offer, someone who was really interested in becoming a great UX designer. So I started this boot camp. It's 16 weeks. There's no prerequisite. You don't have to necessarily have a degree, you don't have to have had an experience in the tech industry or design industry. It is all taught to you. I just want people who are wanting to learn and who are hungry. Boot camps obviously are quick. They are fast paced. Oftentimes you're doing it while you're working a full time job. So you have to be self sufficient, a self starter, everything that you just said. And it's just been really rewarding to see my students go on and work for big tech companies, smaller companies, startups companies that I've never heard of before. And they're just really making such an impact because user experience designers are needed. It's not the traditional days of web design and just doing whatever the client says. We really come in with authority. So being able to help aspiring designers become confident, it's just what I enjoy most? And in terms of would I recommend it? Absolutely. I always have this conversation. People say, well, do I need to go back and get a traditional four year degree or get maybe like a master's degree in order to gain these skills? And I say, listen, I always ask people two things. What is your timeline? And specifically, like, what is your timeline? If you are saying, I want to transition into UX within the next four to six months, then a two year program at a university is not going to be for you, but a boot camp. You know, the other thing I like to ask people is how do you learn best? Are you someone who needs someone there physically with you to kind of walk you through each step? Are you someone who can actually learn from an online kind of modules and virtual coaching? So what is your timeline and how do you learn best? And from those two options or from those two questions, you can choose whether you go the self taught route where you actually source the material yourself. Takes a lot longer. But that's maybe how you learn best. But yes, if you are someone who wants to learn very quickly and you want to start working because everyone's like, I want to start working. I want to start working, a boot camp is definitely going to be for you. Awesome. No, that's super dope, man. And then when it comes to people listening to this, they're going to be like, all right, boot camp sounds amazing, but what is user experience and what are the transferable skills or the type of personalities that would be good for it? How would you describe user experience in that way? Yeah, it's a really good question. So, again, so user experience. In user experience design, we study human behaviors. One example is like, okay, let's say you are in a parking garage and they have lights in a lot of parking garages now that are like color coded. They're green and they're red. So the green means that there's an open space. The red means that everything is filled. So if you look down the aisle and you see that they're all red lights, you know, I'm not going to turn down that aisle. I'm going to go down an aisle where there's some green lights. That's user experience design that is trying to enhance the experience of you finding a parking space more quickly, more easily, safely, things like that. So if you translate that into a digital space, which is where a lot of people think about user experience design, again, you don't have to. It could be restaurants, it could be, like I said, physical parking garages. It could be digital applications and things like that, we study why people make the decisions that they make. There's a difference between creating an interface for seniors and a difference between creating, like a TikTok app for people who are probably more tech savvy and things like that. So what steps are you going to take to develop a new social media app versus an app for seniors? So we study human behavior. We do a lot of testing with our users to make sure that we're actually getting it right. And in terms of the soft skills and the transferable skills, to be honest, if you have an interest and a passion for research and design, I think that user experience design would be great for you. We don't necessarily do any coding. We are not technical in that way, but we are still very technical because we're building applications that need to be coded. So specifically in my boot camp, we do cover kind of the bridge between development and user experience design. But if you're someone who's like, listen, numbers is not really my thing. Coding is not my thing. This might be something for you. If you feel like you're a little bit more creative, this might be a field for you. One of the big character traits that you'll hear user experience designers talk about is empathy. So being able to empathize with someone else's situation, again, a senior, being able to empathize with the fact that they're going to need larger buttons than those of us who are a little younger, they're going to need larger fonts, they're going to need less text. They don't want to read all of that. They're going to need easier flows when they're checking out or something, doing whatever it is that they're trying to do. So it's understanding and having empathy for different people in different situations. So empathy, but honestly, the willingness to learn the soft skills, again, it's not super technical in a coding way, but the soft skills are going to be there. If you have a willingness to learn, if you have empathy, and if you are just I can't go back to it more. The willingness to learn user experience design is not easy to learn. And I always preface that with all of my students because of the way that we have to think about solving problems. It is very different. And we have four projects in my course, it's usually the end of project two where students are like, okay, I feel like I see the light at the end of the tunnel and I tell them that that's normal because of the way that we just have to think for other people. We're not used to doing that. We go through our whole lives. We're making decisions for ourselves. Now you have to think for someone else who has a different lived experience, a different job description. It's just a very different thing. But again, the willingness to learn will get you there. Okay, cool. And you mentioned four projects. Can you kind of just describe what those are and why you do that? Yeah, definitely. So as a user experience designer, when you're going to get a job. Your bread and butter is going to be your portfolio. Your portfolio is going to consist of projects. Mainly it's going to consist of like maybe a home page where you can actually click on your projects. But the meat of it are going to be projects. So a project could be I give real world experiences that are current problems that are happening in industries today. That's really important because when you go down in front of these hiring managers, they want to know that you are forward thinking, that you are thinking about current problems that are happening today. Because although it may not necessarily apply to what you would be doing at that company, they know that you're on the cusp of what's happening, what's trending, where the problems are and things like that. So one problem could be, let's say maps. I think maps, the way that we see maps on our phones, I think that that's going to be changing. That still remains to be seen. But I think small problems. Like, if you put in an address and it's like, okay, turn right, and you're in a new city and you don't necessarily know which way is like right or left, sometimes the GPS is kind of steering you in a way that they think is correct, but your right is not necessarily their right. So what do we do? We just start walking, right? We just start walking until it looks like we're walking in the opposite direction and then we turn around right? We hope that we're walking the opposite direction, but there are different ways that we can reimagine how maps work so that we can prevent pain points like that. How many times do we just start driving? Okay, I'll just start driving and see if it reroutes me. There are things that can be enhanced and be improved. Even though maps is great and we love it and we don't have a physical map anymore, there's still always improvements and tweaks that we can make. So that's one of the projects that my students work on. It's very intricate and things like that. But in terms of what the project is, it starts from your research. How did you actually research this problem? What were the research methods that you went through? We talk about different insights that you pull out of those research points. And then it then goes into you kind of doing some mapping techniques to kind of say, okay, how could this look, if I had to map out this process for this user who's having this problem of not knowing which way to go or whatever the problem is we're trying to solve. And then that moves in into different high fidelity, low fidelity mocks, different ways that we can approach the problem, different ways that we can solve the problem. We test it. That's shown in the project. So in user experience design, you learn this process of how to solve problems but every problem is going to be different. So every project is not necessarily going to look the same, but it is a very lengthy, involved process. It takes a long time to feel confident about, but the more projects you do, the better you'll feel, the more you'll go back and tweak things like that. So yes, once you have this body of work that you feel good about, that's when you can actually start applying to jobs. So when you apply to jobs, you'll have your resume and you will have your portfolio and those are the two most important things that you'll need to actually get a job. And you will also interview typically with that portfolio. Membership in black and HR means community and being a part of a culture of like minded individuals. You have a culture within a culture, especially in the black community. And black and HR is that professional culture. We have fun, we laugh and joke about things that are related to us in the workplace, but we also have serious aspects as well, where we help each other grow. And it's just one of those places where I can go to any time of the day, pose a question, and I'm going to get all type of answers, but I'm going to get support. And we all work together to give advice, to give insights, to share tips. The networking is amazing. The people that I've spoken to have allowed me to learn things about myself that I didn't know. So what does that do when I go to my next interview? I have that confidence when I walk in to be able to explain and speak on what I've done in the past and prove that I am the person for the job. And then when it comes to what makes your students successful, would you say it's because their preparation portfolios just outmatch their competition that they're interviewing with? Absolutely. So it's going to be that it's the projects that I choose, but to be honest, it's also me. It is the coach. I started by saying there's a difference between knowing how to do the thing and knowing how to do the thing. Well, a lot of courses are going to teach you how to do the thing. But because I have the ability to select the number of students that I want to work with at one time, I have the ability to pour into those students and kind of look at their work and challenge them the way that I would challenge someone on my team at a big tech company or the way that someone would challenge me. I have the ability to ask them certain questions, to get them thinking certain ways so that when they go into these interviews, they are not talking like someone who just came out of a boot camp. They're talking like someone who has had experience somewhere. And that's just because of the relationship that we build over that 16 weeks. And that is the difference between an instructor and someone just giving you the information and actually being coached 100%. And that's why I have you on the show, because you have an incredible reputation. You have the success record in terms of placing people. And when it comes to the listeners, any boot camps that I put in front of you, these are boot camps where they don't just teach you how to do it, but they teach you how to do it well. They have good relationships with companies because their students go there and rock it out. And they have a reputation where once you're done with that boot camp, you put it on your resume, it really accelerates your path to getting the job versus potentially not. So definitely do your due diligence when it comes to accreditation, when it comes to how successful are they at placing people, how do they support but more know, ask people their experience. And everybody I've talked to that's worked with Ashley has a really positive experience because you can probably tell during the interview she's passionate about this and not only about that, she cares about the people that are part of it. Yeah, definitely coaching. I've had a coach for just building a business. I believe in coaching. I believe that I don't know everything. And I think that it's important to I always go back to how do you learn best? And for me, if we're going to do a virtual boot camp, you need someone to course correct you. There are a lot of courses where they just give you the information and kind of expect you to figure it out. I don't really know how you do that. Not to necessarily transition into a new field where you want to make money and actually get a job and things like that. So you need someone to say, hey, let's think about some different ways that we can rephrase those survey questions to your users so that they make more sense. Well, what were you thinking here? When you use this color, all the questions that you are in, feedback that you're going to receive on the job is what I try to provide my students. I look at them as colleagues and not as students. I look at them as aspiring UX designers. They are trying to get better. They're trying to learn. So having that understanding and then I was also once in their shoes, I mean, I went through a boot camp myself, understand so. Yeah, I think all of that really makes a difference when it comes time to actually coaching. All right, so talk about the interview process. Once somebody is done with the boot camp, they start interviewing. What does that process usually look like and what should people expect? Yeah, so the interview process is going to be different depending on what companies you are going to be interviewing with. I'll get to big tech companies in a minute because as you know, those are very lengthy processes. But all in all, you are going to expect some sort of a phone screener where they're just going to make sure that you are who you are. They may ask you a couple of questions about your portfolio, about your experience. And then if you make it past that, typically the next point is showing off your portfolio in one way or another. I have kind of like a PDF that I give my students for each project and what I want them to do is answer a series of questions from each project because what that does is I'm asking them questions and I'm getting them to think about talking points that interviewers are probably going to ask them about. It's one thing to do a two week, three week project, but it's another thing to actually pull out what you did and why you did it. Because those are going to be the talking points that you're going to use. You're not just going to say, here's my project and it's beautiful and it's great and you should hire me. You have to be able to being able to talk about why you did what you did. Maybe there was something that you did that didn't go right, talk about that, but it's having those things top of mind that's really important. But yes, you're going to be talking through maybe one project, maybe two, about again why you did things that you did. If you get to another round, you may have a panel of interviewers who are doing the same thing, asking you questions. You also might have a situation where the company wants you to present in a way that reflects the company's values, if that makes any sense. So like, let's say one of the company leadership principles is like, I don't know, customer obsession. They're going to want you to pull out instances from your projects where you were customer obsessed, where you were obsessed with the customer, where you were really trying to make sure that you delivered for them and that's what they're going to want you to talk about. So also getting clear with your hiring manager on what they're going to be looking for is going to be key too. You and the hiring manager have the same goal, is to get you hired. So use them to your advantage when it comes to trying to figure out, okay, what's expected of me. In this interview, they sent me this list of requirements of what they're going to be looking for, but I'm not sure. Reach out to your hiring manager. And then there also are going to be some questions, I think they call them like behavioral questions where they ask you what would you do if or tell me about a time when and you might have to use the Star method and things like that. You guys can go and Google. The Star method if you've never heard of it. But it's just a way of answering a question that pulls a lot of information out of you at one time. So, yeah, behavioral questions, showing off your portfolio probably more than once, maybe more than one or two behavioral different interviews. And that's kind of the process. But again, your portfolio and knowing your portfolio forwards and backwards is going to be what gets you in the door at these companies and what really sets you apart, because everybody is not going to be able to articulate themselves the way that you can if you kind of go this route of knowing your portfolio. Got it. Okay. No, that was helpful because number one, I thought that UX was a super technical role until today. So it's dope to hear that it's more about problem solving and being forward thinking about the actual user's experience and how to make it so that the end goal is achieved seamlessly for the customer, the end user. So that's really insightful. So you get the role at the company, and especially for those that go through your boot camp, and this is the first time having a UX role. What are some key things that they need to do while at the company to be valuable and to solidify your position at the company? Really great question. So one of the things is going to be ask a lot of questions. Things are going to be new. One thing that I try to go over in my course is like, who are your partners going to be traditionally? So these might be like, who are the people that you're going to be working with and what are their roles? Setting up time with these people that you're going to be working with, and understanding whether it's other designers, whether it's your PMS, whether it's your developers, trying to understand how do they work best, what are they looking for out of a UX designer? Like asking questions, asking questions about the company. That's all going to be very important. Just making sure that you understand what's expected of you. And that's also relationship building, which is also really good. So that's the first thing. And not being afraid to ask questions. I still ask questions. There are acronyms that are used at companies. There are just like all these things that you're just not going to understand. You're new, everybody knows you're new. So just take the time and be new. Use that time to your advantage. And then also, I would say, try to figure out where you are going to make your mark. One of the things that I like to instill in my students is I like to pick out different things that I think they're really good at. So I'll say you're really good because again, when it comes to UX, you have different roles within that. So you can be a researcher, you can be a designer. So you can be a researcher, you can be a strategist, and maybe you're not doing a ton of design. Maybe you're just kind of like mapping out different techniques and different ways to do things, different ways of getting from point A to point B. You can actually be a designer and actually work on the color and how something looks and things like that. It really just depends on the company and how they break down the roles. But I always like to ask my students, like, okay, where do you feel like you fit best within this UX process? Because you don't have to do everything. Typically in most roles, you're not doing everything unless you're working at a startup and they have limited people and things like that. So I'll give some people that I'll say, I'm really into the research or I'm really into the design of how it looks, the color and things like that. And so I would always say, figure out where and how you're going to make your mark at that company. What are the skills that you bring? Is it a tool that you're super efficient at that maybe they haven't started using but they are going to be using? Be the catalyst and say, listen, I know how to use this, I can set up office hours and things like that for you guys, can ask me questions, figure out how you can make a mark. Because when it comes to review time and just people feeling like they can trust you, those things are going to be really important. So yeah, making sure that you can figure out where you fit within the company and do something and do it really well, that's going to be key. Yeah. And the big reason why I asked that question is because this year has been record setting in terms of the amount of layoffs that have happened. And it's really important to have a brand within the company where you're not expendable and you're really somebody that's important to the job. So I appreciate you breaking that down. What would you say to people that are afraid of getting into tech because of all the layoffs and is it a good time to get into tech from your perspective? Yeah, so it's a really interesting question because I think I have some opinions on kind of like what's going on with the layoff industry or the layoffs in general within the various industries. I think that it's always going to be a good time to get into tech. I think one thing that I want us all to remember is that tech, quote unquote, getting into tech exists outside of like five companies, right? It exists outside of those fang companies that you think of, oh, I want to work here, I want to work there. Like I said, I was a UX designer at Caterpillar, a company that you may not necessarily think of when you think of, oh, they have UX, but they have applications. They have all these different things. There are growing companies, there are healthcare companies. There are so many different companies that are stable, that are very stable, that have been stable for a really long time, that have been around for a really long time. So I want us to think about what companies do. I want to join outside of the five or six shiny ones, right? Because you can still make a great living. You can do great, meaningful work. You can meet great people at companies that people don't talk about a lot. So let's start thinking about that as well. And those companies may not necessarily be having layoffs. So, yes, it's always a good time. I always say it's always a good time to do what it is that you want to do. Oftentimes layoffs happen, and then a few months later, these companies are hiring again. That tends to be that we see. So I think that right now there's sort of a correction that's happening, and after that correction, we'll see rehiring in some of these larger companies. But yes, it's always a good time to get into these fields. They're not going anywhere. I also implore people, myself included, to upskill. So it's like, okay, you're a UX designer, but what else is going on that you can also learn about? AI is really hot right now. Chad GPT is really hot right now. All these other companies and platforms that are doing AI related things within the design space are really important to learn. So taking classes and always sharpening your skills is going to be important too. Because within the next couple of years and it's already starting to happen, but there are going to be more and more roles that are going to be coming up that are going to be UX related, that are going to be associated with VR AI and different things like that. So you want to make sure that you have a seat at the table when those things come up. So that's something that if I could impart any wisdom on the way that we can kind of see the layoffs that are happening right now. If there's a silver lining, it's like, listen, keep your portfolio sharp, keep your skills sharp, and keep an eye out for some of those new roles that are going to be popping up. Now. You said it perfectly. I agree. I think it's always a good time to get a tech skill and get into the tech career space. And like you said, there's a lot of non tech companies that are stable, where you can make a huge impact and have stability and make a great living. Or you can work at a startup where you can get equity and be a part of the design strategy, the UX strategy that gets them to Series B, series C, series D, and then eventually going public. And that going public money is potentially life changing depending on when you get in and how many shares you get. All right, there's so much more we could talk about, but we're running out of time. So we definitely got to do a part two and hopefully you can come down to the studio in person and we can get into types of UX roles and how you were able to elevate in your career and the money aspect, the negotiation aspects, all kinds of things that I know we can get into. But before we go, I just want you to let people know how they can get in touch with you as well as if they want to sign up for your boot camp, how that process gets started. Yeah, definitely. So if you would like to sign up for the boot camp, the best way is to email me and I can get you into the flow of signing up and applying. So you can email me at Ashley@ashleyjanelle.com. And it's regular spelling. Ashley. A-S-H-L-E-Y. Janelle. Janelle.com. Ashley@ashleyjanelle.com. I'm on Instagram@theashleyjanelle.com and I'm also on YouTube. I do a UX series on YouTube as well. And so my YouTube I'm at Ashley regular spelling Janelle with an extra E at the end of Janelle. J-A-N-E-L-L-E-E on. All right, perfect, perfect. Well, I appreciate you for sharing all this information, the resources, the insight. I've learned a lot. I think my listeners have learned a lot as well. And yeah, again, I just reemphasize ashley is the real deal. If you want to really be prepared to be a rock star in the UX space, invest in yourself, sign up for that boot camp and crush it and make sure that you are doing what Ashley's doing and I'm doing, which know, reaching back and pulling people in, especially people from our community. So again, thank you so much for joining the podcast. If you'd like to stay in touch with me outside of this podcast, I'd love for you to connect with me on Instagram at Dr J-D-O-C-T-A-J. Also connect with me on Twitter at Drnyc doctanyc and then all the freelancers, especially my Black freelancers. I have a site called Blackhire.com. My goal is to get black freelancers the best jobs in the freelance space. So if you have UX skills, you can throw your profile up there and get some freelance work as well as doing your big tech or startup job. So if you are a freelancer, create a profile. And if you're a company that posts on Fiver, Upwork or other freelance sites, I would love for you to post your jobs on Blackhire.com. And I'm going to make sure the best and the brightest are flooding your applications and you're getting some really quality talent. With that being said, I thank everybody for listening. Make sure to subscribe, share like everything on YouTube, subscribe on Apple and spotify. And, yeah, let's make sure we stay connected. And if you want to connect to my other social medias, you can go to forward slash bigtechenergy until the next episode. I'm looking forward to all the success that you get from being part of Ashley's bootcamp and the gems that were dropped and implementing them. And I'll see you on the next episode. Peace, y'all. Membership in black and HR means community and being a part of a culture of like minded individuals. You have a culture within a culture, especially in the black community. And black and HR is that professional culture. We have fun, we laugh and joke about things that are related to us in the workplace, but we also have serious aspects as well, where we help each other grow. And it's just one of those places where I can go to any time of the day, pose a question, and I'm going to get all type of answers, but I'm going to get support. And we all work together to give advice, to give insights, to share tips. The networking is amazing. The people that I've spoken to have allowed me to learn things about myself that I didn't know. So what does that do? When I go to my next interview, I have that confidence when I walk in to be able to explain and speak on what I've done in the past, prove that I am the person for the job.